Recently, a friend posted an article about a woman in New Zealand who in her fervant desire to have a Dragon Baby (hence, the article ‘Desperately Seeking Dragon Baby‘), has decided that she will do so by any means, including artificial insemination. Ms Chuang, who is a Rooster, “believes a dragon child will also be “perfect match” as the two zodiac signs are said to be most compatible.”
Needless to say, this article contains aΒ voluminousΒ quantity of astrological fiction (henceforth, Astro-Fi), which I shall endeavour to address. But first, let’s talk about this Dragon baby business because, you will not believe the number of friends who are also fixated on a Dragon child (a number of them, Dragons themselves, perhaps it is just glorious self belief in propagating one of their own eh).
The Dragon Drivel
First, let us deal with the notion of the SUPERIORITY of the Dragon Baby. For the sake of convenience, I will use the text from the New Zealand Herald because it sort of adequately sums up most of the misconceptions that most people have.
“Many Chinese consider the Year of the Dragon to be the most auspicious year to have a child. Those born under the sign of the dragon – the fifth, and the mightiest of the 12 Chinese zodiac signs – are said to be outstanding, driven, independent and destined for success.
Given that the Dragon is supposed to be the mightiest of the Chinese Zodiac signs, has anyone given any thought to why it is then that the Rat came in first in the famous astrological race?
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn0W1sbQCWE
If old Dragon here is so amazing, how come it came in Numero Fivero then? Was the Dragon endeavouring to give face to the other creatures since it was so certain of its own supremacy? (as the above Onisuka Tiger cartoon suggests?) As for the outstanding, driven, independent and destined for success parts – there hasn’t been any study that has proven conclusively in the last 36 years that 1976, 1988 and 1990 have produced a disproportionately high number of “outstanding, driven, independent and successful” people. In fact, I know a couple of lazy Dragons myself. Or perhaps it is just because they know they are already superior that there’s no need to try eh?
[Point to note: the definitive modern text on how to be a pushy parent was not written by a Dragon, but a Tiger! sic: Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. Nuff said.]
“Feng shui practitioner Janet Chan said no other zodiac sign could be compared to the status of the dragon, which symbolised power, strength and good luck.Β She said the Emperor of China also used the dragon as a symbol of his imperial power.Emperors are believed to be no ordinary humans who rule the kingdom with the blessings of the dragon,” Mrs Chan said. “Many parents believe that babies born in the Dragon Year will also enjoy this same stamp of royalty and blessings.”
Well, without necessarily disparaging Janet Chan’s skills as a Feng Shui practitioner, all this is basically SYMBOLISM at best. And honestly, I think if one is intend on being symbolic, then they should be symbolic to the max. So, as an example,Β Dog Parents should only have Tiger or Horse babies – and they cannot just have Tiger or Horse Year born babies – they should make sure these children are not born in the Dragon Month (April), Dragon Hour (7-9am) and should ensure their children are born in Horse or Tiger months or days or hours. Oh, and heaven forbid if your spouse should be a Dragon. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Indeed, perhaps all these wannabe Dragon Baby mommies should go all the way and make sure their kid has FOUR DRAGONS in the chart. Yes, if you win the Dragon Year Baby Lottery, and your child miraculously appears on the dates of March 6, 2012 between 7-9am or March 25, 2012 between 7-9am, you can lay claim to the ULTIMATE Dragon Baby – Four Dragons for the price of ONE.
[in case some crazy uber-competitive or stupidly superstitious mothers are thinking wow, I’m gonna book a Caesarean on that day and at that hour, a cursory look at the BaZi for both those two days suggests you really don’t want the ultimate Dragon Baby. Best to let the cosmos decide really]
Let’s take up Ms Bevan Chuang’s belief that since she is a Rooster, therefore a Dragon will be perfect to’compliment’ her zodiac. Β I wonder if she will still hold this view when she realises that the Dragon-Rooster combination is considered a middling combo at best? In the pecking order of Combos, Dragon-Rooster loses to Dragon-Monkey-Rat and by extension, Dragon-Monkey or Dragon-Rat is a better combination that Dragon-Rooster. Further, if we are to take this ‘theory’ to its natural extension (and in the event someone actually thinks I am being serious about this…think again), Dragon-Rooster produces Metal whilst Dragon-Monkey or Dragon-Rat produces Water. In the Five Elements, Water and Fire are considered the two MOST elements that should NEVER be absent from a chart. So the Dragon-Rooster combo is seriously inferior by these arguments, to the Dragon-Monkey or Dragon-Rat combination. As such, the idea that a Rooster mother should have a Dragon kid in order to achieve astrological synergy is Rooster-poop at best. Message to Dragon moms out there – it’s a MONKEY or a RAT that you want, especially if your Spouse is one or the other. (assuming people want to take this astrological fiction to its natural extent).
Further, what is this rubbish that the Dragon is the symbol of the Emperor and so therefore anyone born in the year of the Dragon is therefore by extension a sort of mini-Emperor of sorts? Yeah well if someone grows up with the ridiculous sense of self entitlement that comes from thinking they are some kind of Son/Daughter of Heaven because of a quirk of biology, I am quite sure they will have Emperor-like tantrums and spoilt behaviour. And what a recipe for success THAT is. Further, if anyone has visited the Forbidden City, they will notice that the Dragon motif that supposedly represents the Son of Heaven is almost always accompanied by that of the Phoenix (for the sake of convenience, Rooster), as the symbolism of Yin and Yang. How come Rooster’s don’t have the kind of stellar cosmic reputation that Dragon’s enjoy then?
Now, let us look at the more accurate assessment of this whole Dragon Baby phenomenon:
The Five Dragons
There are Five Dragons in the Chinese Astrological cycle, which comprises of 60 Jia Zi (5×12 animals) – your average bog standard free-online Chinese astrology guide is now sophisticated enough to discern these and they are often described as Wood Dragon, Water Dragon (2012), Earth Dragon (1988), Fire Dragon (1976) and Metal Dragon. In BaZi, they are η² θΎ°οΌ ε£¬ θΎ°οΌζ θΎ°οΌδΈθΎ° and εΊ θΎ°. Β For the sake of brevity, we shall refer to the Five as the Dragon Pillars. (and in case there are questions – yes, there are Rat Pillars, Snake Pillars, Goat Pillars etc. I’m just not talking about them here)
Broadly speaking there is some basis in which to justify the Dragon Pillars as being superior slightly to the other Animal Pillars – in each of the Dragon Pillars (the exception being Geng Chen), the Stem element is rooted (Ren in Gui in Ren Chen, Jia in Yi in Jia Chen, Wu in Wu in Wu Chen), denoting a superior quality element and/or the pictoral image is a beautiful one (as in the case of Bing Chen), again, denoting a measure of natural energy harmony. The series of images below demonstrate whyΒ η² θΎ°οΌ ε£¬ θΎ°οΌζ θΎ°οΌδΈθΎ° are considered pictorally superior.
Bing Chen - Sun rising over the mountains
Wu Chen - Lush Verdant Mountain
Jia Chen - Tree on Hill
Ren Chen - Water on the Mountain Top
On the basis of the superiority of the pillar by way of either rooting of the element or the pictoral beauty, it *CAN* be argued that Dragon Pillars are better because 4 out of 5 of them are actually ‘good’ pillars when compared to the other pillar groups. Accordingly in a sense, Dragon years ARE superior (excepting Geng Chen, which is the worst and weakest of the Dragon Pillars). Dragon Pillars have a higher number of ‘good pillars’ and most of these pillars can be said to be quite formidable – Ren Chen for example, is Ren controlled by its own 7 Killings Star, Jia Chen is Jia seated on Resource and supported by Companion, Wu Chen is a solid clump of rock, which is what Wu should be and finally, Bing Chen is Bing seated on Eating God, Resource and Direct Officer. Each of these involves positive stars to some degree.
But it is important to understand what is the point of having a good year pillar in order to appreciate the REAL value of a Dragon Baby. The year pillar covers approximately the first 17.5 years of a person’s life (assuming an average lifespan of 70 years). Β As such, having a Dragon Pillar in your year is strongly suggestive (outcomes vary of course depending on what is in the month) of a good childhood and teens. This is broadly considered important since psychologically, the formative years of a person’s life are critical to some degree to informing their future outlook.
But more relevant from a BaZi standpoint, a good Year Pillar affords strong protection against unfavourable Annual Luck Pillars. Having a good Year Pillar is like wearing a bulletproof vest – you still might get shot but at least something is taking the bulk of the blow for you. So having a Dragon Pillar in your Year does afford some perks (again, assuming it is not Geng Chen).
That being said,Β people often forget that Ren Chen and Geng Chen are part of the Fui Kong group of Stars and Wu Chen is considered ‘slightly’ Fui Kong ish as well. Fui Kong means hardship, a tough life but also loneliness and solitude. So, 2012 babies are going to have a tough time growing up and is it any surprise given that there is HUGE pressure on moms to have a Dragon baby in 2012? Your 2012 baby is in for a competitive life and probably a hard childhood and adolescence competing for places in school and coping with massive classes, not to mention having to life up to this absurd mantra of being ‘the greatest’ by virtue of some quirk of biology (or fertility treatment as it were).
By extension of classical BaZi theory, only certain stars should appear in the Year Pillar in order for the BaZi to truly qualify as having a good start – usually either Direct Resource or Direct Officer – you can have Direct Wealth as well but that might suggest a crass or in the best case scenario, working class made good background. So, this means that unless you get a Yi Wood Day Master OR a Ding Fire Day Master in 2012, the ‘benefits’ of the 2012 Water Dragon are questionable at best by way of giving junior the best possible start in life by way of astrological manipulation. And if you get a Gui Day Master in 2012, then your kid really hits the BaZi tough luck lottery – he/she starting out life with a HUGE competitive disadvantage since he/she will now have Ren Chen (a very FORMIDABLE pillar) as their competition in life AND for life.Β
I wonder who still wants that Dragon baby now.
With all the frenzy that is swirling around the Dragon, the 2013 Snake is somewhat overlooked. Gui Si is actually NOT a bad pillar at all (certainly preferable to the year after which is Jia Wu) and doesn’t come with all the attendant inconveniences of the ‘Dragon’ frenzy. Those in the know of course will be aware of this and so will not compete with the rest of the masses chasing after a Dragon that may not have a pearl.
Wait, why is Geng Chen the weakest Dragon Pillar?
No roots for Geng.
Sorry for the late reply.
I’m guessing also that the pictorial representation of Geng Chen is rather unappealing? Thankfully I was born on a Geng Shen day, so no biggie (even if Geng Chen is my hour pillar).
Here is my birth chart Hour Geng Chen, Day Geng Chen, Year Earth Dragon, Month ???? Rabbit.
i appreciate this article a lot. I am a dragon mom (wu chen) and many of my friends and family are pressuring me to have a dragon baby this year. I keep thinking, thats self punishment year for me, no way…and offending the grand duke. But many people really think dragon is is somehow superior and have this “dragon frenzy” going on. As with anything else with bazi, it all “depends”.
I wanted to know what your opinion is on having a baby in Gui SI year and what months would be considered good when looked at along with the year.
thank you in advance.
Clarification: although it is self punishment, it is NOT a problem if the Dragon does not involve your child star. Snake year pillar is not bad so at least you know first 17.5 years will be not too bad. Don’t be fixated on issue of what months etc – unless you are in total control of conception process, its best to just leave things to the higher powers.
that’s true, about self punishment on child star. I agree, i should just be more hands off on the baby making process but i can’t help to find a good month /year because those are the only things I can control, and I prefer not having a clash and harm on the chart itself if i can prevent it. Now if i am destined to have a certain kind of child, he wouldn’t have made me knowledgeable in bazi! LOL
I did this with my first child and she has a clash between year and day. I still think its better than having a clash between year a month. Agreed?
How do you know that snake is good or bad based on looking at year only? wouldn’t it depend on what day the person is born so we know which 10 gods the year actually applies to the chart?
Hence i said first 17.5 years will be good. Theoretically we should look at the chart in entirety but if there is a good pillar in year, then we know first 17.5 years can’t be bad. As for the rest of your statement, you can do your utmost to prevent what you think you should prevent but if it’s not meant to be that way, then all you have is the perception of control. clash between Y and D is more problematic than clash between Y and M because an early tough start is not as bad as a late tough older life. We always want the chart to be better at the end, so that old age is not that bad.
you’re probably right. in the end, god or the higher power will determine what kind of child I will have, not me.
but can you help me understand why snake year is good as a year pillar? Snake has: Bing, Geng, Wu…is it because snake is one of the few branches that has more than one element inside it?
Without really knowing what your standard of BaZi is, it will either go over your head or make no sense.
i have equivalent of M1 class from JY knowledge.
Over your head then for sure. I don’t mean to be disparaging here it’s just this will open a can of worms and then everyone will want to know about the rest of the 59 pillars etc etc.
now you make me very curious to find out which ones are the good and bad pillars!
what about Geng Yin? is that a good pillar?
Ah well we could keep going on forever till we cover all 60 this way could we?
So interesting. There’s always been this allure about Dragons in my family. My sister is a Wu Chen (actually has two Wu chens in her chart in her hour pillar along with the year).
But I don’t understand why the Wood Horse would be a bad pillar? Wood feeds the fire in horse though, right?
Hi Baziqueen, pleased I came across your article you talk a lot of sense.
I’m a water dog and am expecting a water dragon baby in early December (so very early days).
This was not planned and I’m scared that I’ll have a difficult child who hates me. I’m quiet and peace loving and rather pessimistic, dragons are a bit full on for me.
Is there any hope for a child-parent relationship? I’m born in a monkey month and tiger day, rooster hour. I have very little earth in my chart but lots of fire and water. I’d be grateful for any response as freaking out a little at all the ‘mortal enemy’ stuff I’ve read! Thanks x
The character of the child has nothing to do with the Dragon year – it is about the child’s own chart based on their BaZi. I think it is false to assume that dragons will be “full on” – as mentioned, depends on the BaZi of the child and the temperament they have based on their chart.
Thank you for replying, sorry to insult dragons, that wasnt my intention! Obviously I’m hoping for a good relationship with a child. Do you think that it’s possible for a dog and dragon to have a harmonious relationship if the full BaZi balances out?
You’ve got the cart before the horse. It isn’t about whether you’re a dog and the child is a dragon – it is about IN YOUR CHART what is the quality of your relationship with your child star, and in the child’s cart, what is the quality of their relationship with the mother star. Hence – “Do you think that itβs possible for a dog and dragon to have a harmonious relationship if the full BaZi balances out?” completely does not make sense as a question. Why on earth would you decide on the basis of the Year Pillar alone when you could look at the whole BaZi is the point I’m trying to make. Further, “if the full BaZi balances out” is a completely separate equation from the relationship to the parent/parent relationship to the child.
I came across to your website when I was searching about having dragon baby this year. I know it’s pretty late as of today. I am a 34 years old horse. My partner is 48 years old dragon. Will it be OK if I have baby late this year? Thank you very much for your time.
You missed the point of the article. the point is that there are people out there who are obsessed with having a Dragon baby and the point of the article was to say, the insanity is exactly that – insanity. In any case, what does it mean when you ask “will it be okay if I have a baby late this year” – okay in what sense? Okay because you’re a horse and your other half is a dragon? People think the year of their birth reveals great secrets – it doesn’t. When it comes to having a child, its the relationship between you and the child star in your chart that is what matters at the end of the day if it is the relationship between you and your child that you care about, and not the nonsensical astrological significance of one type of child over another.
Dear BaZiQueen,
A related question about birth times: In the case of 4 pillars for a baby born prematurely do you treat the chart as you would for a full term baby?
Thank you,
Stephanie
Yes
Hi,
I was born in the monkey year (25/10/68) and my hubby was born in the horse year (30/4/66). If i am successful with my IVF treatment and conceive in August 2012. Will my baby considered a ” dragon head and snake tail” ? Does a snake baby good for us ?
Thanks.
Regards,
En Xuan Choo
If you conceive in August, you won’t get a Dragon child, it will be born in the year of the Snake.
Hi Baziqueen,
So what does Gui Si pillar represents? And iI had read from another post abt ji chou pillar being unity pillar, etc. so what kind of pillar is gui si? Actually, I am 1977 snake year person who is thinking of getting a snake baby, hubby is 1975 rabbit. Will there be any clashes? Just curious.
I mean I find it very interesting that you uses pictures to represent the pillars, so wondering what is the picture of gui si. Thanks.
Sorry, if i reply on Gui Si, I have to go through all 60 Jia Zi. Also, if you don’t have basic BaZi knowledge, it honestly won’t mean much to you. Advanced bazi students will have a better appreciation of it. Regarding Dragon baby – clashes with whom? You? Your Spouse? Clash with what? Where? In the actual chart? Vague questions are difficult to answer.
Hi Baziqueen,
I understand that being born in a good year does not mean everything will be good, since the month, day and time all play a part. I wouldn’t expect answers on all those.
Just that I like the pictorial images you had used for the pillars, and I remember you have one for the tiger year in which the axe chops the wood (which is metal sitting on wood, right?). So for gui si, the image is water extinguishing the fire? Since water is sitting on top of fire. Thanks.
Re: Gui Si. Not quite. I assume you are a Bazi novice? Pictoral BaZi is a very advanced concept and not really ideal to be unleashed on novices. Like I said, if I do Gui Si, I will have a endless stream of people asking about the rest. So Unless I plan to do all 60…this is going to be a slippery slope. Sorry. It’s not that I don’t want to tell you but then this will just prompt everyone to ask.
Yeah, I’m a novice. Read up a bit when I was choosing a name for my girl.
No prob on not revealing more. Thanks
I love your article a lot. Please give some insights about 2013 snake baby too because I am going to have one in March. Thanks in advance.
The Year Pillar alone does not reveal much. Ultimately, it comes down to the full bazi itself.
How about year 2014 (horse)? will it be good to have a baby?
Interesting article π
I will be inducing our baby in Jan 2013 due to slight medical condition. What are some of the good dates to induce? Both myself and my hubby are rooster born in 1981.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Regards,
adeline
I’m new to bazi. According to an online bazi calculator, my son (a dragon baby) has a gui mao day master (6.11.12 at 6:35pm). You mention that life will be hard for him. Is there anything I can do to support him? I have a geng chen day master and was born in a water dog year (2.26.1982 in the 2am hour). I know our years are incompatible (I was researching this when I found your site) but as you mentioned to a previous commenter, day master is more important than year pillar. My husband, also a water dog, had a Ji Hai day master (7.15.2982). Would my husband be a better support?
I do not provide professional advice via my blog.
Sorry, I thought my question was similar to other comments except based on day master (instead of year like someone else asked). Perhaps I was being too specific now that I reread my comment.
Well, think of it this way – the only kind of advice that I could provide that does not constitute professional advice is general advice. General advice, like most general things in life, is pretty much useless when it comes to BaZi.
I am a Metal Rooster, I have a Metal Aries Dragon, Water Horse and Metal Rabbit. By far, my Dragon child is the hardest one to raise. She is always in trouble at school, wants the most expensive things, vein, has the worst friends, and lazy. Doesn’t listen to anyone. It’s like having a roller-coaster in the house. Her good attributes are that she is great with people, creative, nothing gets her down-she is the pure definition of “made of steel”-one can only wish to have that much self-esteem. When she sets her mind on something she does it perfectly and effortlessly and she is beautiful. Unfortunately her bad attributes out weigh the good ones and I’m afraid I see no success in her future.
It’s terribly subjective to determine that all Dragon kids are difficult – using the year is a lousy way to determine if someone is ‘difficult’ or not. BaZi is about specifics, not the generalisation based on the year.
Having dragon in Day or Year is very good, but having more than 1 dragon in birthchart is bad, two dragons makes self punishment, tenancy to blame oneself for mistakes, it also makes them more arrogant, prideful. Also its not good for Dragons in birth chart meet a Rabbit. Rabbit and Dragons harms each other secretly.
Geng Chen and Wu Chen are in the Fai Kong group, which is strong and determined.
while Ren Chen and Geng Chen are in the kui gang too.
For the record, I DO NOT AGREE with the statements of Justin. However, to run a reasonably democratic blog, I have approved the comment. Please do not assume that the above information is therefore sanctioned or somehow represents my opinion regarding the presence of Two dragons in a chart, or the Dragon-Rabbit interaction.
Hi, I love your articles. It’s quite informative. What do you think about people with DM Jia Chen? I heard they are sneaky and have bad money management. But the people I met don’t usually have this problem. Well, they are sneaky but definitely have good money management. What do you think about this? Thanks for your time.
For gui DM, it’s at a competitive disadvantage due to the Ren heavenly stem or the gui roots of the dragon?