If it's December 1941 in Casablanca, what time is it in New York? - Humphrey Bogart, Casablanca
A reader sent me this e mail:
And then it occurred to me that this is really one of those ‘confusion’ topics that whilst it usually gets addressed in a BaZi class, almost always is the source of great uncertainty to those without such an opportunity.
Personally, I agree with the viewpoint Joey has expressed several times that the debates over whether or not to convert to Beijing Time, World Time, China Time, GMT, UTC – whatever time, are just a WASTE OF TIME. It is nothing more than pedantic arguments disguised as academic discourse. It distracts from the fundamental subject matter which is helping people get the answer to their issue or problem in life!
Let me elaborate.
What is the point in converting the time back to whatever time it is that it’s supposed to be in China? Is there any affinity for a person born in the US to China? No. What connection is there to this person that requires the time to be converted to China? None at all.
So why should China’s time be relevant?
For that matter, the whole kingdom of China is one time zone. (it is also the case in Malaysia). Anyone who has studied the concept of International Time even vaguely knows that it is RIDICULOUS that a country like China, which is HUGE, has one time zone. Even Russia and the US do not have one time zone. So someone born on the same day and same hour in Shenyang vs Tibet would have the same BaZi technically but realistically this is not so.
But still we do not change it. Because we assume that synchronocity and affinity will appropriately reflect and correct the chart. (okay, a bit crazy-mountain-top-guru sounding but…it makes sense really if you go with the theory of the universe as all knowing).
Another point that I use when this subject comes up with the students at the Mastery Academy is this: in ancient China, how did they know what time it was?
In the day they had the sundial.
But at night?
Some dude would go around banging a gong or a metal plate and announce the time.
How do we know he was always right? What if he was stuck in the loo for half an hour prior to Rat hour and so only got out and banged on his plate, say, half an hour late, during which time, it had already crossed into Ox hour? A child born at that time would have Ox as his recorded hour in the chart.
Does that mean the time is wrong? And who is the person then to correct it to say, it should be Rat Hour?
The theory behind not converting the time is also synchronicity and affinity. Since that is the hour written on your birth certificate, and so, that is the hour that is used because you have an affinity or connection to that hour. The other safe assumption that can be used is that synchronicity in the universe means that if it was to be the case that you have that chart, you will have that chart. In other words, it was meant to be that the nurse looked up 20 minutes AFTER you were born, and wrote a time that was 20 minutes later, possibly carrying you into the next hour.
Side Note: The same situation applies to C-section births. This is why when a BaZi consultant selects a date for a C-Section birth, you do not give the child the BEST DATE. You give the child the date they should have, based on the chart of the parents’. In short, you can’t have a kid that you’re not destined to have. There are many instances of C-section births that have been selected in advance, and which were simply money poured down the drain because SOMEONE UP THERE refused to have their plans for the kid foiled (in other words, the date simply was too good for the kid!).
In Malaysia, it is common for some people in their forties to have what is known as a ‘delayed’ birth certificate and therefore a erroneous date of birth. This is because the parents may have lived in a provincial area and so took their own sweet time to register the birth. Sometimes, the parents don’t bother because they don’t think the kid will survive and only do so after 3-4 days and don’t really bother with whether or not the details are the same.
In the one instance I have seen of this, the person’s chart from the actual date and birth certificate date is not off by very far. It is about 90% similar in terms of how one would read the chart and the basic personality/nature of the person.
Again, SYNCHRONICITY and AFFINITY.
So why on earth is treated with such seriousness by some masters? Well, it’s a competitive business, the metaphysical advisory business. Partly I think it’s just business. Like BaZi charts that use Lunar calendars, or which plot strange upside down pillars or pillars that don’t exist, it’s sometimes an attempt at innovation to create differentiation or to have a USP.
Like painless dentistry!
My advice to clients is this: use the time on your birth certificate. That is what you have an affinity with and so that should apply.
From a practical reading standpoint, whilst the hour is important to help qualify certain matters in the chart (the quality of Fire for example), it is not impossible to read a chart WITHOUT the hour. Inconvenient but not impossible.
The Hour Pillar relates mainly to Children and Employees, and some other issues that are useful to know but not essential, but those are strictly speaking not impossible to decipher using the first three pillars alone. So 25% of your BaZi chart may be wrong – the remaining 3 pillars remain correct. You can still read fundamental matters like personality and character, and it has no bearing on the impact of the Luck Pillars, which are determined by the Month Pillar. You can still determine strength (if you want to). And you can read relationship to children and employees just the same from the three pillars (a little harder) using the Ten Gods.
So whilst some issues are affected, it’s not IMPOSSIBLE to read a chart with the hour being ‘wrong’ or assuming you don’t know, the hour not being present.
It’s not fun, and you do lose a bit of accuracy, but it’s not impossible.
So the bottom line is, don’t get Hung Up on the issue of the time. It’s only an issue if you don’t have a birth certificate, or it wasn’t recorded on your birth certificate – to which a consultant may still be able to guess-timate to some degree. We don’t need to know it to the MINUTE unless you’re a twin. And we don’t need to convert it to Brazil, China or Uganda time. Whatever time it was in YOUR COUNTRY of birth.
Tags: ChineseTime, Hour Pillar for BaZi chart, Converting to China Time, Converting to GMT.